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If this should be the case, should not lesvian be the adjective? Dysprosia22 Jun UTC not at all. Even the Modern Greek transliteration is still lesbian. In all articles about Ancient Greece it would be perfectly ridiculous to talk about the "Lesvian" dialect, "Lesvian" literature etc.


If this should be the case, should not lesvian be the adjective? Dysprosia22 Jun UTC not at all. Even the Modern Greek transliteration is still lesbian. In all articles about Ancient Greece it would be leebian ridiculous to talk about the "Lesvian" dialect, "Lesvian" literature etc. But this is just nonsense. You can generalise about things that are not kesbian in their properties. Morevoer, in the next paragraph much research is cited which makes generalisations about lesbian behaviour!

A generalisation just means lesbiaan largish statistical probability, when compared to some control group. I hope someone else can improve on what little I came up with.

I also throught that some information about the reactions of lesbians to pornography needed to be included along with the reactions of heterosexual men and women. This seemed a more appropriate place to address concerns about gay-bashing, so I moved that bit from the "Reactions of heterosexual men" section. So I have to ask, why should an article on lesbians include sections on the reactions of heterosexual people to lesbian pornography and ignore the reactions of lesbians to lesbian pornography?

If there's going to be a pornography reaction section at all and I'm not convinced there should be -- I don't think it's relevant in an encyclopedia article, and there's nothing about anyone's reaction to any of the other forms of media then why is the lesbian perspective being left out?

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twlk Since I'm new I'm hesitant to lesboan a chunk out of any articles, but I think the pornography section deals far too much with what other people think of lesbians and is not very interesting, well-written, or informative. I think simply noting that lesbian pornography exists but that most is produced by and for straight men is all that's necessary. I'm afraid I've jumped in a bit too quickly without mastering Wiki etiquette first! I confess I only skimmed the editing helpwhich was foolish of me.

I just searched and found that there's already a stub about lesbian pornographyperhaps it would be better to move information on heterosexual reactions to lesbian pornogaphy there and leave the lesbian article focused on lesbians themselves. I intend to back off from further attempts at article editing until I'm less of a newbie, so I'm just putting the idea here as a suggestion.

Still other lesbians are mostly indifferent to any distinction and advocate the availability of such material.

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I removed an edit that said, in effect, "lesbian" pornography has nothing to do with real lesbianism because the statement is not supported by the literature or the evidence. I'll admit that my description of lesbian reactions may not have been properly NPOV, but at least it attempted to explain why gay-bashing was being mentioned at all in that section. Bringing up gay-bashing in a section on the reactions of heterosexual men to lesbian pornography implies a connection between Women want nsa Longmeadow Massachusetts two.

References to this supposed connection should either be made explicit or omitted altogether. I also think the section on the reactions of heterosexual women deals overmuch with generalizations about female bisexuality that are neither well-supported nor relevant. I think if there are supportable claims to be made on the subject then they belong there instead of in an article on lesbianism.

Also, the implied connection between bashing and lesbian depictions in the media is reasonable IMO I didn't put it there btw, but I've regarded it as a thoughtful end to the para Wyss17 July UTC If there's any connection real or perceived between pornography and gay-bashing, I don't think it should be merely implied. It should be stated plainly.

As things are, I think it's at best a non-sequitor and at worst comes across as a sneaky attempt to suggest that porn causes gay-bashing without providing any support or explanation. I don't see it as a non-sequitor because the statement relates to tolerance that is, Single 34 Lordsburg guy doubletree hotel warns "don't think this has anything to do with tolerance for lesbians, 'cause they still get bashed and worse".

Nothing sneaky about it all. I should add I don't think the text even hints at a causal correlation between lesbian-themed porn and the abuse of lesbians. If the point is that lesbians can be the victims of gay-bashing, this shouldn't be stuck under the "Pornography" heading. If the point is that the popularity of lesbian pornography has little relation to tolerance of lesbians in the real world, I think that's sufficiently clear from the rest of the text without the reference to gay-bashing.

Placed the way it is, it looks like it's suggesting not only that men who like lesbian porn may not be tolerant of real lesbians, but that they're probably gay-bashers and rapists too. And that's my final post on the subject, I promise! The construction does and is meant to suggest "men who like lesbian porn may not be tolerant of real lesbians", but does not assert they're "probably" bashers etc, only that such things happen, in spite Briggsdale CO bi horney housewifes the popularity and acceptance of lesbian depictions in that genre of entertainment.

The wording is strong, I agree, but I've liked it since I first read it. Wyss18 July UTC By the way Wyss, I think what you posted above about lesbian reactions to pornography "Lesbian pornography is a controversial topic across the lesbian community I think your summary here better reflects the diversity of viewpoints and is also more clear. Please let me know your thoughts Wyss17 July UTC I saw it, but I liked the way you phrased things in your post here better than what's in the article.

Just my opinion. First, thanks for bringing this to the talk. I disagree with your statement that "It has not been historically controversial, unless of course you mean the last 80 years You might want to be more specific about your concerns here though, maybe I don't understand yet what you mean. I do have a problem with throwing around words like historical, especially when the historical research hasn't been done.

I'm sure one could make an argument for images of lesbianism having existed in folk and low cultures for long periods of time without necessarily having been controversial in nature. Furthermore, pornographic depictions of sex have existed in high art for some time without provoking controversy.

I'm thinking specifically of some of the gay and lesbian independent films I've seen, and therefore I find it relevant to classify pornography. The current usage is a very specific, albeit mainstream, form of pornography. It's not clear. lesbiaan

I attempted to insert something clear and informative, if you don't find it accurate, replace it with something that makes sense. What are these vague assertions being referred to?


This section is also very western, specifically US-centric, and I think that needs to be noted. A lot of the broad generalizations made here do not tallk in other countries, especially in Asian countries.

It means what it says I don't agree that this section is US centric. Again, maybe if you could be more specific?

Talk:lesbian/archive 2

Wyss8 August UTC Sorry, I should have been more clear, I didn't mean specifically the lesvian cited above, but rather the article in general. I was specifically thinking of a counter-example related to Pornography, which constantly refers to the aversion of the image of male homosexuality. My experience in Japan, however, is enough to demonstrate that this is not a universal claim as the article currently dictates.

In fact, I would be willing to speculate that gay pornography is much more popular than lesbian pornography in Japan, although ttalk is based on my limited experience with Japanese sex shops.

Nonetheless, the views are not the same, nor are they in Casual sex Idaho Falls no membership, or anywhere else in the world, really. Therefore, the article lesbiann some specification as to what exactly is being discussed. I'm not saying I don't find value in the US-centric discussion--I do--but we can't have that value unless we realize what is actually being discussed. If somebody wants to put up, non-anonymously, what I worked on, I'm going to leave it here: It is difficult to classify pornography due to a wide range of potential definitions and its close ties with subjective pleasure, however, it can be said that the depiction of lesbian sex has been controversial.

In contemporary western society, some have argued that pornography in any form inevitably le to the objectification and stereotyping of women, while others support pornography llesbian a valid forum for the assertion of women's rights through individual agency. Currently, however, an overwhelming proportion of pornographic media is targeted exclusively at men, including both gay and lesbian pornography.

In the US the popular response to the lesbian as an entertainment icon is consistently positive. This contrasts sharply with a widespread aversion to the image of male homosexuality.

As noted earlier, pornography is produced primarily for heterosexual males. Positive reactions by straight men to lesbian pornography does not necessarily indicate evidence of tolerance of lesbians, or a general acceptance of lesbianism in society. In fact, in the US, Lesbians are takk the victims of gay-bashing and sexual assault.

Many heterosexual women are said to have a more positive attitude towards depictions of lesbian sex than most heterosexual men have to depictions of male gay sex. Some suggest that this may be because heterosexual women are on average "more bi-curious " than heterosexual men, while others claim that it is simply a manifestation of the effects of the male gaze on female socialization in the US.

However this is controversial, since ificant s of heterosexual women have negative attitudes towards lesbianism, ranging from mild to extreme.

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Thanks for your time! If you'd like to discuss this, I'm willing Wyss8 August UTC I'm sorry that you found it less clear and helpful, but I believe that my points are valid, and is that any basis for whimsically removing an edit that was obviously thoughtfully applied? No, I suppose I should rephrase that. If an entry is less clear and helpful, it should be removed. If an entry adds interesting points, but you have problems with it, you should make it better not just pretend it never happened.

Beautiful older ladies looking group sex WY ten minutes after I make the edit, it's already removed, and only because I posted anonymously? I didn't realize that Wikis were subject to only one individual's judgement of clear and helpful.

For this to work properly, people should not form attachments to their edits or feel the need to take responsibility for maintaining the worldview of a specific "regular" group of individuals who claim a single article. But, that's just my opinion.

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I've made an effort to integrate it. The version began with "In western culture, popular response to lesbian content in entertainment is consistently positive. This section isn't about the response of all of Western society to all lesbian content in all entertainment something that obviously is NOT "consistently positive"it's about the response of straight men to lesbian scenes in pornography.

Even then, I think it's an overgeneralization to say that the response is "consistently positive.

CKarnstein11 August UTC Also revised the introduction to the Lesbiam section, which was even worse in terms of vague wording. We need to be clear about the subjects of our claims. Let's not be afraid to say things plainly.

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I think your changes are helpful. My reason is simple: it doesn't stand on it's own as an encyclopedia article, and it makes a good addition to this article.

I make this suggestion on editorial grounds, not cultural; Lwsbian het, but have many friends in the gay and lesbian community. KenAugust 3, UTC I'm torn here but I'll come down against a merge; I note there is already an article at Lipstick lesbian and arguably this term is as valid and already the same size.

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